The problem with alternative energy
Posted By matt on May 29, 2009
So, let’s say that our monthly electric bill is 1000 kwh, and for this we pay something like $2k/year. There are 600 hours in a month.
- Solar
Panels seems to be something like $1000 per 100w panel. 17 panels will give you 1kw, so you’ll get 600kwh for $17k… in Arizona. On the other hand, in NY, efficiency is a lot (lot) less than that, so we’re talking about 1/5 or so from what the various estimators (which are from the solar industry, so I suppose they’re optimistic). So, figure at least 4 times the cost, so call it $50k easy, just for the panels.$50k is 30 years of power at current prices.
Not worth it.
- Wind
Turbines end up being like $6500 for a 3kw generator which, at peak, will give you 1800kwh.. at the peak efficiency of the unit. Problem is, this usually requires a decent amount of wind – more than I have. Wind maps say it’s like 10 mph, which (depending on the unit) will end up maybe producing half the rated power – if it’s constant. Figure it’s not, so maybe a quarter of the power – so 450kwh. So, wind is cheaper than solar, it if it pays for about half, it pays for itself in 5-10 years (you still need to add a tower and other miscellaneous stuff, which drives the cost up a bit).Marginally worth it.
- Hydro
This requires a stream (which I have) and some amount of drop – ideally 2-3m (which I don’t, without some.. creative excavating). A 1kw unit will be about $3000, plus some extra bits, but, it’s more likely to work year round, as long as I can keep it from getting plugged up and reorient the stream.. and deal with the ecological permit issues and such. The problem is that I don’t have the 2m drop. I might be able to swing 1m, but that’s iffy. So, I’d need two generators to make it back up to 1kw.So, likely not possible, but if it is, it is on par with Wind.
So, here’s the problem – In order to pay for your alternative energy system, you need to front $6-$10k, some of which you will get back in tax credits (according to my research, it can be up to 80% between federal and NY state credits). But, you have to come up with that money ahead of time and, in the case of wind, it needs to be an approved system installed by a licensed installer – which means that the cost roughly doubles.
This also doesn’t even scratch any type of redundant power solution – batteries to store excess energy, etc. which will likely be cheaper to add to an existing system than a small generator, but the generator is cheaper than the system.
However, I suppose that if it was like $2k for a 10kw windmill setup, then everyone would be doing it, wouldn’t they?
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As with anything, the early adopters pay the huge price of being a pioneer…so, yeah, the stuff is expensive, up front. Sadly, though, folks are gonna have to find ways to do it, so that it starts to get cheaper and cheaper for those who follow.
One good potential way to raise the money, if you've the equity, is home improvement loans, especially from credit unions. My credit union, Addison Avenue, has been pushing green loans within their system, talking about how they'll pay for various alternate, personal energy generation sources via specific loans and what not.
One huge perk of doing this, too, is that it kicks up the equity, as well as attracts folks who want to be green, but lack the drive, if/when you come to sell your house.
It's like xerescaping (probably typoed that) your property, it's expensive, and in some cases you get less from the land, but it does up the asking price, later on.
While I understand the economics, that doesn't mean that I like them, or that I plan to pay said premium.
I am not taking out another loan – not now, not in this economy.
“xeriscaping” is also known as “not being retarded and planting stuff which won't survive where you live without altering the environment”.
Instead of trying to find ways to generate your desired consumption, why not find ways to reduce consumption? Suggestions? Of course! http://www.freewatt.com It is a residental combined heat and power system. You still burn a fuel however but you are capturing the heat for your home while you are creating power. Install a geothermal heat pump. They have the highest coefficient of performance currently available. But for you Matt I would look into mini hydro electric power http://www.platypuspower.com.au/ is the basic idea. Look at the 240 VAC models. I guess what I am getting at, it if you reduced your power consumption you could use a smaller and cheaper generation system to make up the difference.
Because I don’t want to reduce consumption.
I mean, I’ll change lightbulbs, but anything more serious would mean less A/C, fewer computers, etc. – and I want MORE of that. Pervasive computing. Flat panels in standby in every room – touch on, do whatever, touch off.
Now, the idea of using a generator’s waste heat to heat the house and hot water is a good idea, and presents a viable improvement.
Geothermal fails cost-benefit. I did then numbers when we put in the new system (which wasn’t cheap) and the extra cost was going to take 10 years to pay off. When building a new house, maybe, but it was too expensive for this one.
Now, the issue with the mini hydro is that it needs more of a drop than I have on the property, so they basically don’t run.
What type of Geo were you looking at? There is a buried line style which is basically a huge ass loop put into a track dug by a ditch witch that is the cheaper way to go. Then there is a drilled well style which is big money because you have to drill a grout a well. The well style is good for small properties but for you digging a crop circle in your front yard at 4 1/2 ft deep shouldn’t be to difficult. Doesn’t everyone up there have a backhoe and a “Will dig for beer” sign? But hey check out this technology. http://www.microturbine.com I went to school for these last year. Currently they only offer them as small as 30KW. Mostly I work on the 60KW. We capture the heat off of 4-6 of them and use it as a heat source for an absorbtion chiller. The engineer was saying that they are working on a small residential unit for remote locations. These things run on anything. Nat gas, digester gas, propane, oil etc. They are load following so they adjust speed accordingly, they offer a combined heat and power setup so you can heat with it too, but residential absorbers do exist so you could cool with it too.
I was looking at the kind which drilled several holes into the ground, because I didn’t want to dig up the lawn.
Now, with regards to the turbine, if I someone was doing a unit with a small (say 10-15kw) generator + anaerobic digester, and do it for less than $20k, AND could rig it up with an automatic disconnect so that it works like a standby generator (except that it comes on whenever I need power and it has fuel), then I’d be interested. See, here’s the deal:
1. I have a pile of lawn clippings/yard waste/compostable material/etc. Right now, it breaks down in a cold pile and all the gas is wasted. If that can be collected and the compost comes out the bottom, that would work well. I’ve got TONS of biomass.
2. I am going to get a standby generator. One of the issues with many alternative systems is that they (officially) can’t be used for that because they need to either incorporate some type of automatic disconnect (like an automatic transfer switch) or turn off when mains goes out (which is apparently how most of them work, or so the alternative energy hippies at the home show tell me).
3. If I can use it to heat the house, so much the better.